15 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Gasp.  I agree with Das!

 

 

Yeah, that again leads to the idea that there was no plan/direction.  It seems more like a "throw darts at the wall and see what sticks".  And I think there was also some panic buying (Soler) toward the end once the more major/impactful bats were gone.

I agree Soler was a panic buy - the financials are fine with the deal, the positions are bizarre hence the panic buy. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a plan. Clearly they were on Reynolds/others for CF and they refused to trade Watson or whoever. They must have been really confident with that but it didn't materialize? I don't know. This is what we can blame them on. All roads lead to not trading for a CF and Bruce being cheap.

17 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

I agree Soler was a panic buy - the financials are fine with the deal, the positions are bizarre hence the panic buy. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a plan. Clearly they were on Reynolds/others for CF and they refused to trade Watson or whoever. They must have been really confident with that but it didn't materialize? I don't know. This is what we can blame them on. All roads lead to not trading for a CF and Bruce being cheap.

Yeah except if there was a plan, things didn’t work out as expected (ie Reynolds like you mentioned), ok that happens….but you then pivot to another move (like several ideas that you’ve suggested - a “lesser” guy or someone like Kiermeier who’d be great defensively)….not just nothing.

but she also hamstrung herself/the team by signing several redundant players that play the same position, therefore in order to get them to play (without dropping a Aguilar/Cooper/etc), you’re then quasi-forced to not make a move, otherwise there’s nowhere to play them all and you’re paying someone a lot of money to sit on the bench…

Soler was a panic buy in the sense that it was done to 'prove' to Jeter others that they were looking to spend money.

Soler is an awful fit given roster construction they already had.

This was an offseason to acquire one of Garcia/Soler, not both.

Not when you have Aguilar/Cooper on your roster.

Not when you have plenty of options already for corner outfield spot.

I fully believe ownership went to the front office and said, look we have to sign someone, go do it.  

They may have even told ownership that its a bad fit but ownership didnt care and wanted the optics of them spending money, position be damned (but not too much money!) 

So Soler took their money (which will only be taken again next year if he has a massively BAD year).  So its an awful deal for the Marlins long term and a no risk deal essentially for Soler.  Shows you who had leverage there!

Just now, rmc523 said:

Yeah except if there was a plan, things didn’t work out as expected (ie Reynolds like you mentioned), ok that happens….but you then pivot to another move (like several ideas that you’ve suggested - a “lesser” guy or someone like Kiermeier who’d be great defensively)….not just nothing.

but she also hamstrung herself/the team by signing several redundant players that play the same position, therefore in order to get them to play (without dropping a Aguilar/Cooper/etc), you’re then quasi-forced to not make a move, otherwise there’s nowhere to play them all and you’re paying someone a lot of money to sit on the bench…

Maybe the plan is we can live with this at CF for 1-2 months and do this once we see team needs and how the pitchers look first month of the season. That is a reasonable approach IMO - and I think they were right if this is the thinking as Sanchez has been good enough and the team is effectively .500 which is solid. The CF issue is bad, but it's not nuclear bad so some credit is due there as they have stop gapped this so far.

They get Laureano for Sunday when he's back and really all is forgiven quickly (assuming its not a lopsided trade).

I give -0- fucks if two of Rojas, Wendle, Anderson, Aguilar, and Cooper are always on the bench. That's a good thing - and ignoring the Jazz/Sanchez lefty benchings and Soler/Garcia/Aguilar/Cooper present struggles. That all works itself out and depth is good. Of course, they need a manager to understand how to utilize these players appropriately but that's another topic.

 

Want another super buy-low CF idea - Nick Senzel. The Reds are horrible. He is not great. Yes he hasn't hit at all, but he has a career .700 OPS against lefties and is playing above average CF defense since 2020. There is enormous bat upside here if someone can fix/tweak his swing and he meets his 2nd pick overall ceiling. I'm talking a real buy-low, outside top 15 prospect guys as a true flyer. Nothing major. Sanchez still plays 50% of the time in CF minimum. Maybe the Reds would do it for younger guys who can help more in 2-3 years. This is also - a bench idea. They still need 2 other major bat upgrades but I'd buy very low here and hope a change of scenery turns him into an Adam Frazier kind of guy. 

2 hours ago, Das Texan said:

Soler was a panic buy in the sense that it was done to 'prove' to Jeter others that they were looking to spend money.

Soler is an awful fit given roster construction they already had.

This was an offseason to acquire one of Garcia/Soler, not both.

Not when you have Aguilar/Cooper on your roster.

Not when you have plenty of options already for corner outfield spot.

I fully believe ownership went to the front office and said, look we have to sign someone, go do it.  

They may have even told ownership that its a bad fit but ownership didnt care and wanted the optics of them spending money, position be damned (but not too much money!) 

So Soler took their money (which will only be taken again next year if he has a massively BAD year).  So its an awful deal for the Marlins long term and a no risk deal essentially for Soler.  Shows you who had leverage there!

Yep the fact they made it a player option laden contract proves it was just a "show me" type of deal to prove they spend money too. If Soler rakes then hey hell opt out and they're off the hook. If he doesn't then they have a reason to not spend on a "crowded" outfield now when he renews with his player option. Just stupid all around.

Kim Ng brought in two league leaders and everyone is sad?

SOler is 6th in strike outs

Outvisail is 6th in lowest .OPS

if anything this team needs more league leaders.

What to do with your shitty team now, Ng !?

Alright, enough, take a week off and relax, man.

13 hours ago, Michael said:

Alright, enough, take a week off and relax, man.

We have no one who can consistently close out ballgames.  This was a glaring need.  She gotta go

5 hours ago, CyggyMarlin said:

We have no one who can consistently close out ballgames.  This was a glaring need.  She gotta go

Seems everyone knew the team's issues except the team's GM.

Soler might’ve been a “panic buy,” but the bigger problem right now is the two non-panic buys — Avisail Garcia and Stallings. 

But definitely Avisail though — we’re stuck with this guy for the next 3 years after this one. It’s not even a position of need either. 

1 hour ago, Erick said:

Soler might’ve been a “panic buy,” but the bigger problem right now is the two non-panic buys — Avisail Garcia and Stallings. 

But definitely Avisail though — we’re stuck with this guy for the next 3 years after this one. It’s not even a position of need either. 

The Stallings move was celebrated by almost everyone, on here and by analysts. He was fresh off a GG and we've been tortured at the catcher spot since JT was traded (outside of the few games we had Cervelli).  It just hasnt panned out but Ng didn't give up a ton to get him. That was a good trade at the time and I won't fault Ng for that. 

I think most of us thought BOTH the Avisail and Soler signings were stupid though then and now.  That 27mil per year we're paying those guys should would have looked nice being put towards a Correa or Castellanos (assuming he DH'd and we traded Aguilar) instead.

 

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

The Stallings move was celebrated by almost everyone, on here and by analysts. He was fresh off a GG and we've been tortured at the catcher spot since JT was traded (outside of the few games we had Cervelli).  It just hasnt panned out but Ng didn't give up a ton to get him. That was a good trade at the time and I won't fault Ng for that. 

I think most of us thought BOTH the Avisail and Soler signings were stupid though then and now.  That 27mil per year we're paying those guys should would have looked nice being put towards a Correa or Castellanos (assuming he DH'd and we traded Aguilar) instead.

 

This is accurate.

 

I think most of us liked the Stallings move to shore up the catcher spot.

 

Garcia nobody understood especially the years.   Then she doubled down and had the knee jerk “we need to spend something because Bruce said we’d spend publicly” Soler signing….

Soler hasn't been terrible. He's got 0.6 WAR this year so far. He may end up being a passable 2 WAR player. Is he worth the money? Probably not. Let's hope this is just a down here, or that he picks it up the rest of the season.

Garcia has been a disaster.

There's a lot of uncertainty in both of these guys, and I think we've pretty much gotten the worst case scenario for Garcia and a pretty bad case for Soler.

Interestingly enough, none of the options people talked about constantly on here (Reynolds or Laureano) have been lighting the world on fire. Both have sub .800 OPS (Reynolds is almost as .800).

We could've made  these great moves that people wrote paragraphs about incessantly (with a ton of slashes and dollar signs), and we'd probably still be in a shit position. Them's the breaks.

4 hours ago, Entendu said:

Soler hasn't been terrible. He's got 0.6 WAR this year so far. He may end up being a passable 2 WAR player. Is he worth the money? Probably not. Let's hope this is just a down here, or that he picks it up the rest of the season.

Garcia has been a disaster.

 

Soler hasn't been all bad and on a better offense, you can get away with him batting 7th or 8th.  Batting 3rd on the Marlins really brings out how misused he is (and that the offense is poorly constructed).

 

Garcia just sucks.  

28 minutes ago, CyggyMarlin said:

Soler hasn't been all bad and on a better offense, you can get away with him batting 7th or 8th.  Batting 3rd on the Marlins really brings out how misused he is (and that the offense is poorly constructed).

 

Garcia just sucks.  

1 hour ago, Major-Minor said:

We're bad luck !?

Not spending is not bad luck,

Sign bad players is not bad luck, 

Blown saves from unproven closers is not bad luck, 

Defeat bad teams and defeated by good teams is not bad luck, 

Hire a rookie GM and have a bad off-season is not bad luck …

If we sign Correa then he plays suck, it's bad luck 

If we sign Jansen then he plays suck, it's bad luck 

If we have a payroll of ＄200MM and plays suck, it's bad luck 

Seriously, when would we have a really good team !? 2025 !? 2030 !? never !?

1 hour ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Seriously, when would we have a really good team !? 2025 !? 2030 !? never !?

Yea man. They are a bad team. 

I'm getting 2012 vibes in the sense of just having a team that everyone thought would be better but it just won't click, won't work, nothing goes right, snake bitten, all of that negativity that's almost inexplicable. I know we are all upset and we have our reasons but nobody thought it would be this bad. It's like a worst case scenario all around. 

I remember after blowing up the 2012 team Loria said something like he knew two weeks into the season that it wasn't gonna work because it was just a bad mix, that's what I get here. 

59 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I'm getting 2012 vibes in the sense of just having a team that everyone thought would be better but it just won't click, won't work, nothing goes right, snake bitten, all of that negativity that's almost inexplicable. I know we are all upset and we have our reasons but nobody thought it would be this bad. It's like a worst case scenario all around. 

I remember after blowing up the 2012 team Loria said something like he knew two weeks into the season that it wasn't gonna work because it was just a bad mix, that's what I get here. 

It’s been a bad mix ever since we became the Miami Marlins.

3 hours ago, Erick said:

It’s been a bad mix ever since we became the Miami Marlins.

Yes but some were on purpose, tanking. This year was an attempt at trying and its been worst case scenario almost across the board. It's not usually this bad for a team trying. Just a bad vibe all around now.

With the Marlins, trying is just as shitty as tanking.