TSwift25 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The more I think about it, the more I'm in the moderate camp of Hotcorner. If ARod is made available, to the Marlins specifically and we don't have to forfeit Cabrera, Hanley or more than 1 rotation starter from this year for him, you do it and get it done with. However, my deepest fear is that this trade leaves us weakened. Not to the point of hopelessness, but to the point where another move would be required to address the loss. Realistically, we're going to lose Dontrelle, Olsen or Sanchez plus some non-roster talent for ARod. Are we getting the better end of the deal? Probably, but given the payroll issues, I'm hesitant to call it a slam dunk, and that's saying nothing of the potential implications it could have handcuffing us when Cabrera, Hanley, Uggla and whoever's left in the rotation need to be extended. If the ARod trade signals the begin anew era of spending, trading Willis or Olsen isn't terrible because ultimately they can be replaced with a one or two year stop-gap until West or Thompson or Volstad is fully ready...I'm reluctant to say Petit could get the job done given that he'd have to replace, at worst, the #2 guy in our rotation. There are going to be plenty of older arms out there, some of whom we've flirted with before (Maddux for starters) who make plenty of sense as a short term, win now, signing. However, if the offseason is the ARod trade and then head into spring training...no thank you. I think this past season's team, given a reasonably upgraded bullpen, is in much better shape than the depleated rotation, thin bullpen team that an ARod trade and nothing else brings us. I still say do it and do it fast, but these are the Loria led Marlins we're talking about...there are plenty of ways this can blow up in our faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I guess I am in the minority camp that doesnt want Arod at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetsGoFish Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The more I think about it, the more I'm in the moderate camp of Hotcorner. If ARod is made available, to the Marlins specifically and we don't have to forfeit Cabrera, Hanley or more than 1 rotation starter from this year for him, you do it and get it done with. However, my deepest fear is that this trade leaves us weakened. Not to the point of hopelessness, but to the point where another move would be required to address the loss. Realistically, we're going to lose Dontrelle, Olsen or Sanchez plus some non-roster talent for ARod. Are we getting the better end of the deal? Probably, but given the payroll issues, I'm hesitant to call it a slam dunk, and that's saying nothing of the potential implications it could have handcuffing us when Cabrera, Hanley, Uggla and whoever's left in the rotation need to be extended. If the ARod trade signals the begin anew era of spending, trading Willis or Olsen isn't terrible because ultimately they can be replaced with a one or two year stop-gap until West or Thompson or Volstad is fully ready...I'm reluctant to say Petit could get the job done given that he'd have to replace, at worst, the #2 guy in our rotation. There are going to be plenty of older arms out there, some of whom we've flirted with before (Maddux for starters) who make plenty of sense as a short term, win now, signing. However, if the offseason is the ARod trade and then head into spring training...no thank you. I think this past season's team, given a reasonably upgraded bullpen, is in much better shape than the depleated rotation, thin bullpen team that an ARod trade and nothing else brings us. I still say do it and do it fast, but these are the Loria led Marlins we're talking about...there are plenty of ways this can blow up in our faces. We may have a sh*tty owner and president but we do have a great GM in Beinfest. He got most of this guys here for a purpose and he knows what we have and what we need. I'm sure he won't get crazy and get rid of players we need and are cheap just to get arod and not address our other needs, and even more knowing how cheap loria is and we may have another Delgado in the making. In the end, in Beinfest we trust, and he knows what's best for the team. The only way he trades for Arod is if overall the team will have less needs and not more by trading away our staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I doubt we would have to give up anyone in our current rotation besides Willis. It'd probably be Dontrelle, Petite, and another mid-major pitcher such as Pinto. I'd be willing to throw Nolasco in there instead of Petite/Pinto to get it done. If we wanted more money covered, I'm sure we could get it with another prospect in there, too. And I don't understand why everyone here seems to think he had such a downfall this season, when in reality if he had pitched the exact same way for the Yankees all season he probably would have won around 16-18 games. And to the people against this who want to sign another CFer, that will not happen. I guarantee Loria won't throw out the dough if it isn't for A-Rod. Not to mention nobody seems to realize if you sign one of those outfielders, you're adding a lot of money while not subtracting any. Bringing in A-Rod would be pricey, but you're also subtracting Willis' $7 Million as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I guess I am in the minority camp that doesnt want Arod at all. better titled the "I dont know sh*t about baseball camp" ala the spike camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Your a moron Shamrock. Anything to mock me huh? Sure having Arod would be great. But overall I doubt it would change the publics perception of baseball down there or put that many more fans in the seats. It would limit the franchise financial mobility, even if the Yankees eat a nice amount of Arods salary. It goes completely against where this team is going, i.e. a youth movement. Even with Arod, there are still holes to fill...catcher, decent bench players, and the bullpen for example...which probably wouldnt be able to be addressed taking on Arod and whatever salary is leftover that the Yankees dont take on...meaning we wouldnt be any better off for it. Im not saying he cant do it, but HanRam might not be able to play adequete CF. We lose our #1 pitcher most likely or, if not, one of the young studs presently there...JJ, Scotty O, or Anibal. And we have nothing to replace them with. Moehler? Ill pass. Mitre? Shouldnt even be in baseball. Petit? Not seen much of him, but at press time seems to be quite the overrated kitten. IMO, while getting Arod would be a nice story and all, I dont see how it really helps the team. Since to get him, you have to make a fine # of sacrifices which could adversly affect the team in a negative way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CHRISTYTOD Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I completely agree with Spike - I say no thanks. We have to lose too much to get him, and it doesn't address the true needs on the team (CF/bullpen) Also, if we do happen to make it to the post season, I'd like to have guys on the team who can hit in the big games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poptart Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 i'd much rather get crawford/baldelli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollyberry Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 well this is insane. My fear would be that Loria pulls another Delgado. I competely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishfan79 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 to the person that said hunter, his option was exercised. He isnt a FA http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ Edmonds will cost alot and want a 2 year deal at least. What I want is either Dukes or Baldelli personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfish Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 What we need is a new stadium. Once this happens there will be enough money to get players like ARod, and a decent bullpen and we will be on our way to having a decent team that could compete for the play-offs year after year. But.... until the new stadium deal happens, we will have a team with "future potential" (like in 2006) and serious spending limits that will cripple any attempts to reach the elite team level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastie Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Seriously wow I really dont understand how someone cant be in favor of trading for A-rod. We are talking potentially the GREATEST PLAYER in the history of baseball. He was also like a .370 postseason hitter before his last 2 series so I hate the unclutch comments. Im not taking any credit away from Willis because hes a great pitcher but you cant but you cant even put them in the same sentence. A-rod comes here and he will hit 50 HR and drive in 140 like he did for Texas and for the Yanks last season. Remember AL pitching is much better than the NL pitching so who knows what could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Your a moron Shamrock. Anything to mock me huh? Sure having Arod would be great. But overall I doubt it would change the publics perception of baseball down there or put that many more fans in the seats. It would limit the franchise financial mobility, even if the Yankees eat a nice amount of Arods salary. It goes completely against where this team is going, i.e. a youth movement. Even with Arod, there are still holes to fill...catcher, decent bench players, and the bullpen for example...which probably wouldnt be able to be addressed taking on Arod and whatever salary is leftover that the Yankees dont take on...meaning we wouldnt be any better off for it. Im not saying he cant do it, but HanRam might not be able to play adequete CF. We lose our #1 pitcher most likely or, if not, one of the young studs presently there...JJ, Scotty O, or Anibal. And we have nothing to replace them with. Moehler? Ill pass. Mitre? Shouldnt even be in baseball. Petit? Not seen much of him, but at press time seems to be quite the overrated kitten. IMO, while getting Arod would be a nice story and all, I dont see how it really helps the team. Since to get him, you have to make a fine # of sacrifices which could adversly affect the team in a negative way. Getting ARod would be a baseball move, not a PR move. If the Yankees eat enough of his salary to reduce our obligation to something like $40 million over 4 years then ARod wouldn't tie our financials hands. This team wasn't going for a youth movement, the movement was to stuff Loria's pockets with money. With ARod Loria can continue to stuff his pockets with money. Catcher is not a strength but it's not a hole either. Our bullpen and bench will be filled with cheap young players and cheap veterans. This will not change with or without ARod. Hanley has the tools to play CF. I agree we lose our #1 pitcher but you have to give something to get an ARod. If the scouts are correct we have other options in the minors. The bottom line is our pitching is downgraded but defense is upgraded and hitting gets an enormous upgrade. I would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Your a moron Shamrock. Anything to mock me huh? It would limit the franchise financial mobility, even if the Yankees eat a nice amount of Arods salary. It goes completely against where this team is going, i.e. a youth movement. Even with Arod, there are still holes to fill...catcher, decent bench players, and the bullpen for example...which probably wouldnt be able to be addressed taking on Arod and whatever salary is leftover that the Yankees dont take on...meaning we wouldnt be any better off for it. Im not saying he cant do it, but HanRam might not be able to play adequete CF. We lose our #1 pitcher most likely or, if not, one of the young studs presently there...JJ, Scotty O, or Anibal. And we have nothing to replace them with. Moehler? Ill pass. Mitre? Shouldnt even be in baseball. Petit? Not seen much of him, but at press time seems to be quite the overrated kitten. But regardless, your fears are ridiculous. First of all, Hanley is fine in CF. No worries. Secondly, getting A-Rod would be a serious longterm commitment to the franchise (or, not against the current youth movement where clearly we'd have 2nd year starters at 1B, 2B, LF, CF, RF, 4 spots in the rotation, and a few RP and bench players). We wouldn't be getting him just for name value and to amuse the latin community. We'd be getting him to build around and contend right now. You don't get ARod if you are not contending. Moehler, Mitre, and Petit is who you bring up to replace Dontrelle? (ARod will not cost Dontrelle and one of the current 4 rotation rookies. It would be another prospect or two). Ownership would easily go out and obtain a 5th starter from somewhere else and not deal with the those clowns, plus obtain bullpen/bench help to create a team. That is chump change compared to A-Rod, and it would signal organizational change in payroll. The Marlins can easily fill all their needs via free agency, sign Cabrera to a 7 year mega contract, and still be in the $40 million range of salary in 2007. Longterm, you'd be looking at like $45-50 mil in 2008, and $60+ mil in 2009. Four of the last five seasons the Marlins have been between $40-60 million in salary. Don't forget that. This team can afford it, it's more of a question if the stadium issue gets resolved where Loria feels comfortable breaking even on the team the final years in the awful lease. Do I think the Yankees move ARod? No. They'll buy Matsuzaka, resign Mussina, hope Pavano gets healthy, and if there is a problem, go find someone in July. This is a completely hypothetical thread, but if you have a chance to acquire Alex Rodrigez, you do it everytime and worry later about whatever holes are created when you get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Punisher Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 You guys, don't get your hopes up, it won't happen, I assure you. It's pure speculation, and lack of coverage at this time of the year. Their just trying to spice up the news for the offseason. Baseball season is over for us, what is it that we do? We make up rumors and talk about trades that can possibly happen, they are doing the same. Pay no mind. I won't get excited unless I see AROD wearing teal in a press conference smiling to the Florida News camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishHarrington Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I agree we are not getting A-Rod for that even happen the Yankees would have to eat 80% of his salary that is not going to happen if anyone thinks Loria would pay 8-10 million a year for A-Rod you are dreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 You guys, don't get your hopes up, it won't happen, I assure you. It's pure speculation, and lack of coverage at this time of the year. Their just trying to spice up the news for the offseason. Baseball season is over for us, what is it that we do? We make up rumors and talk about trades that can possibly happen, they are doing the same. Pay no mind. I won't get excited unless I see AROD wearing teal in a press conference smiling to the Florida News camera. :lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierremvp1 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 ESPN said right away it was smoke and mirrors. I believe it was Gammons and the crappy Mets GM that spoke about it. Not surprised that Gammons would say that. This won't stop the speculation from continuing for awhile...until the next big thread that calls for speculation that the Red Sox are interested in moving Manny and Willis is going there. This speculation on Willis being traded is going to continue for the whole off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Not surprised that Gammons would say that. This won't stop the speculation from continuing for awhile...until the next big thread that calls for speculation that the Red Sox are interested in moving Manny and Willis is going there. This speculation on Willis being traded is going to continue for the whole off-season. yep, should be fun :thumbup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 It's now getting heavy air time on Mike and the Mad Dog. Mike: "A trade home. To the Marlins. It's just a perfect fit. The Yankees would take anyone of those young arms and feel great, he can go there, be the man and be the key with that rebuilding. There are so many good young players there too, he know he'll win a lot also and probably be the best player in the National League." There's so much smoke around this it's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricWiener Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 well this is insane. My fear would be that Loria pulls another Delgado. I'd hate to send away a lot of our young pitchers, but ARod's one of those rare players where EVERYTHING is on the table. I disagree that 2006 was the real Dontrelle and that 2005 was just a mirage. I don't feel he's a #1 ace, but I think the real Dontrelle is somewhere between the '05 and '06 versions. Still talking about a terrific pitcher. If Dontrelle had early season run support and a decent bullpen late season, he'd have won 18+ and be a Cy Young Contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 well this is insane. My fear would be that Loria pulls another Delgado. I'd hate to send away a lot of our young pitchers, but ARod's one of those rare players where EVERYTHING is on the table. I disagree that 2006 was the real Dontrelle and that 2005 was just a mirage. I don't feel he's a #1 ace, but I think the real Dontrelle is somewhere between the '05 and '06 versions. Still talking about a terrific pitcher. If Dontrelle had early season run support and a decent bullpen late season, he'd have won 18+ and be a Cy Young Contender. While that's true, he also had the most starts on the team and finished at .500 while four other pitchers showed that it's not impossible to win with this group. I don't want to trade Dontrelle, he's durable, good and beloved in the locker room and community, but he's not an ace. An ace doesn't have a solid team around him and struggle to be a .500 pitcher. An ace doesn't have the highest WHIP of all the main rotation starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricWiener Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Moehler, Mitre, and Petit is who you bring up to replace Dontrelle? (ARod will not cost Dontrelle and one of the current 4 rotation rookies. It would be another prospect or two). Ownership would easily go out and obtain a 5th starter from somewhere else and not deal with the those clowns, plus obtain bullpen/bench help to create a team. Garcia and Volstad are likely the primary options within the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Moehler, Mitre, and Petit is who you bring up to replace Dontrelle? (ARod will not cost Dontrelle and one of the current 4 rotation rookies. It would be another prospect or two). Ownership would easily go out and obtain a 5th starter from somewhere else and not deal with the those clowns, plus obtain bullpen/bench help to create a team. Garcia and Volstad are likely the primary options within the organization. No f***ing way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Moehler, Mitre, and Petit is who you bring up to replace Dontrelle? (ARod will not cost Dontrelle and one of the current 4 rotation rookies. It would be another prospect or two). Ownership would easily go out and obtain a 5th starter from somewhere else and not deal with the those clowns, plus obtain bullpen/bench help to create a team. Garcia and Volstad are likely the primary options within the organization. jumping the gun with Volstad more likely Garcia, Petit, Bostick or Pinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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