2 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

The team is then awesome and literally no one of consequence is a FA for 2 years.

Do they see what the Florida Panthers are doing? I mean seriously. Invest in the team. People don't go to games because you don't do anything.

I feel like Sherman wants the fans to show up before he is willing to spend. With the track record this team has had for literally decades now - they need 2-3 years of being a VERY good team before fans will really start showing up. Nobody trust the owners of this team and the owners have done zero to give people something to trust in.  He's gonna have to start taking some losses for a few years to really build something here and get interest going to where you can almost guarantee 20k+ actual fans a night and packed house on the weekends.  Nobody is ever going to fucking support a team scoring 2-3 runs a game while losing the majority of their games. It's BORING and i'm so done watching them if they once again fuck up another offseason simply by being cheap. 

I said it five years ago that this group was just as cheap or even cheaper than Loria and was shouted down to give them time and blah blah blah but they've done zero to dispel that so far and here we are five years later with a legitimate starting staff capable of leading a team deep into the playoffs but an offense that has a VERY CLEAR set of needs - yet zilch has been done to address it thus far.  Again, I really hope I've been wrong this entire time and we'll suddenly get word that they signed a Correa and grabbed a + bullpen arm to stabilize the back end of the bullpen - but as someone else pointed out it seems like they're completely incapable of even focusing on something other than CF while other pieces continue to get snapped up by other teams. 

 

10 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I feel like Sherman wants the fans to show up before he is willing to spend. With the track record this team has had for literally decades now - they need 2-3 years of being a VERY good team before fans will really start showing up. Nobody trust the owners of this team and the owners have done zero to give people something to trust in.  He's gonna have to start taking some losses for a few years to really build something here and get interest going to where you can almost guarantee 20k+ actual fans a night and packed house on the weekends.  Nobody is ever going to fucking support a team scoring 2-3 runs a game while losing the majority of their games. It's BORING and i'm so done watching them if they once again fuck up another offseason simply by being cheap. 

I said it five years ago that this group was just as cheap or even cheaper than Loria and was shouted down to give them time and blah blah blah but they've done zero to dispel that so far and here we are five years later with a legitimate starting staff capable of leading a team deep into the playoffs but an offense that has a VERY CLEAR set of needs - yet zilch has been done to address it thus far.  Again, I really hope I've been wrong this entire time and we'll suddenly get word that they signed a Correa and grabbed a + bullpen arm to stabilize the back end of the bullpen - but as someone else pointed out it seems like they're completely incapable of even focusing on something other than CF while other pieces continue to get snapped up by other teams. 

 

Agree on all counts.

 

That's one thing I said originally against the rebuild - was that while it may be the right way to do it, it's going to be tone deaf to the fans that have already been burned countless times.  If he's counting on people to show up and THEN spend, it's a lost cause.  Unfortunately, we're not operating/winning like the Rays to where you could make the argument that we're not spending much BUT we're winning, so who cares?

I think it's been fair to give them time to run out the rebuild process.  But the intention was that as we exited the rebuild that we'd spend, and while they've technically done that - more than anything they've done before - by signing Sandy and Garcia, it's nowhere near enough with the amount of holes we've had in the lineup.

They still have a chance to fix this and make big moves, but that time and targets are slipping away FAST.

13 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I said it five years ago that this group was just as cheap or even cheaper than Loria and was shouted down to give them time

Five years ago today Loria still owned the team #semantics

 

In seriousness though. When they first bought, besides tearing down the team, which was necessary, how could you know at the time that they were going to be cheaper to this day? It is actually a "wait and see" thing. You've been mostly right, so far, and they do need to prove you wrong now. Pre lockout was a good start. Gotta expand on it now.

12 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I feel like Sherman wants the fans to show up before he is willing to spend. With the track record this team has had for literally decades now - they need 2-3 years of being a VERY good team before fans will really start showing up. Nobody trust the owners of this team and the owners have done zero to give people something to trust in.  He's gonna have to start taking some losses for a few years to really build something here and get interest going to where you can almost guarantee 20k+ actual fans a night and packed house on the weekends.  Nobody is ever going to fucking support a team scoring 2-3 runs a game while losing the majority of their games. It's BORING and i'm so done watching them if they once again fuck up another offseason simply by being cheap. 

I said it five years ago that this group was just as cheap or even cheaper than Loria and was shouted down to give them time and blah blah blah but they've done zero to dispel that so far and here we are five years later with a legitimate starting staff capable of leading a team deep into the playoffs but an offense that has a VERY CLEAR set of needs - yet zilch has been done to address it thus far.  Again, I really hope I've been wrong this entire time and we'll suddenly get word that they signed a Correa and grabbed a + bullpen arm to stabilize the back end of the bullpen - but as someone else pointed out it seems like they're completely incapable of even focusing on something other than CF while other pieces continue to get snapped up by other teams. 

 

I feel my likes should have lifted you high above all the down shouting...

Find solace in the messaging that is coming...

"We explored FA and the trade market and we just didn't feel comfortable with any deals that can harm our direction..."

I still don't understand why we can make edits to the blue print...maybe if I made more money.

1 minute ago, Michael said:

Five years ago today Loria still owned the team #semantics

 

In seriousness though. When they first bought, besides tearing down the team, which was necessary, how could you know at the time that they were going to be cheaper to this day? It is actually a "wait and see" thing. You've been mostly right, so far, and they do need to prove you wrong now. Pre lockout was a good start. Gotta expand on it now.

My whole point then, and now, was they were completely and utterly tone deaf with the whole tear down.  They got rid of everyone, even the former Fish who had been given some meaningless job title just so they could remain around the franchise. The way it was handled was a complete black eye and giant F-U to all the fans of the team who for ages have been clamoring for a real owner to come in, SPEND to bring in talent instead of immediately trying to jettison everyone for whatever they can get.  I know some of the contracts were dumb like Stanton but let's not pretend that they had to get rid of everyone on the team.  I loathed how they handled it then as I felt the whole rebuild bit was a cheap ruse to mask, well, being cheap and they knew it would buy them some time so they could pocket a ton of money in the interim.  But here were are, two bats away instead of  two pitchers away from contending for the playoffs.

There certainly is still time to absolutely crush this offseason with a couple big signings and a notable trade to bring in that high leverage reliever and two big bats but with how it's gone thus far?  It reeks of more the same usual song and dance of "hey, we tried but nobody would accept our lame duck offer but we feel real good about going into this season and are super excited to see our unproven bats swing for the fences again". 

It's brutal seeing this team from the outside right now and knowing how EASY it is to identify the pieces it needs and know that Sherman has MORE than enough money to give Miami an actual contending baseball team - but hasn't done shit so far while the names fall by the wayside to other teams willing to actual pay. 

6 minutes ago, hovertical said:

My whole point then, and now, was they were completely and utterly tone deaf with the whole tear down.  They got rid of everyone, even the former Fish who had been given some meaningless job title just so they could remain around the franchise. The way it was handled was a complete black eye and giant F-U to all the fans of the team who for ages have been clamoring for a real owner to come in, SPEND to bring in talent instead of immediately trying to jettison everyone for whatever they can get.  I know some of the contracts were dumb like Stanton but let's not pretend that they had to get rid of everyone on the team.  I loathed how they handled it then as I felt the whole rebuild bit was a cheap ruse to mask, well, being cheap and they knew it would buy them some time so they could pocket a ton of money in the interim.  But here were are, two bats away instead of  two pitchers away from contending for the playoffs.

There certainly is still time to absolutely crush this offseason with a couple big signings and a notable trade to bring in that high leverage reliever and two big bats but with how it's gone thus far?  It reeks of more the same usual song and dance of "hey, we tried but nobody would accept our lame duck offer but we feel real good about going into this season and are super excited to see our unproven bats swing for the fences again". 

It's brutal seeing this team from the outside right now and knowing how EASY it is to identify the pieces it needs and know that Sherman has MORE than enough money to give Miami an actual contending baseball team - but hasn't done shit so far while the names fall by the wayside to other teams willing to actual pay. 

I'd say the worst part of it all now is it's not even the offseason anymore. Spring Training games are being played RIGHT NOW.

They have to make these deals happen.

This place is the shits the last two days.

3 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

This place is the shits

Fixed that for you

Maybe the Marlins are working on a Correa deal, thats whats taking long to do the rest.

That makes sense.

Right?

6 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Maybe the Marlins are working on a Correa deal, thats whats taking long to do the rest.

That makes sense.

Right?

52 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I feel like Sherman wants the fans to show up before he is willing to spend. With the track record this team has had for literally decades now - they need 2-3 years of being a VERY good team before fans will really start showing up. Nobody trust the owners of this team and the owners have done zero to give people something to trust in.  He's gonna have to start taking some losses for a few years to really build something here and get interest going to where you can almost guarantee 20k+ actual fans a night and packed house on the weekends.  Nobody is ever going to fucking support a team scoring 2-3 runs a game while losing the majority of their games. It's BORING and i'm so done watching them if they once again fuck up another offseason simply by being cheap. 

I said it five years ago that this group was just as cheap or even cheaper than Loria and was shouted down to give them time and blah blah blah but they've done zero to dispel that so far and here we are five years later with a legitimate starting staff capable of leading a team deep into the playoffs but an offense that has a VERY CLEAR set of needs - yet zilch has been done to address it thus far.  Again, I really hope I've been wrong this entire time and we'll suddenly get word that they signed a Correa and grabbed a + bullpen arm to stabilize the back end of the bullpen - but as someone else pointed out it seems like they're completely incapable of even focusing on something other than CF while other pieces continue to get snapped up by other teams. 

 

As stated before, what business would ever say "start showing up and we'll bake better bread." That's not how the world works and Sherman knows it.

Fully agree here - they need to build a winning team and not tear it apart quickly.

The only reason to NOT go for it now is because YOU DO NOT have conviction in the kids - e.g. Rogers, Luzardo, Cabrera, Sixto, Jazz, Sanchez, Bender, and to a lesser extent Meyer - and/or YOU DO NOT have conviction on the health of Pablo, Hernandez, Anderson, Sixto again, Jazz again, and Rogers again. If those guys are duds and need another year or are banged up, then this team is going to suck and feel free to wait until next year to spend as it sorts itself out.

However - signing Garcia, keeping Aguilar (sort of expensive), and trading for Stallings and Wendle strongly suggest you have belief in your players. These are all complimentary role players and those 4 are going to cost around 30% of payroll. So I'm not sure how you don't finish the job when you do that.

I think we need to give them till opening day, so the level of anger should remain critical, not fuck off forever, but every day we approach fuck off forever.

That being said, I do think they make 2-3 notable moves. We'll see what they do. All will be forgiven quickly if they trade for Reynolds/Laureano/Marsh, etc., sign Soler, and add a decent arm somewhere. They can easily do this for low $80m, and have a really nice team for $90m. This is not a high ask for me to expect as a fan. To be a bottom 10 payroll.

 

 

Just now, Michael said:

 

 

So the news about them being out of it may have been premature.

5 minutes ago, Michael said:

 

 

hey we still want you....

but you gotta give us a hometown discount!

Just now, Das Texan said:

hey we still want you....

but you gotta give us a hometown discount!

He may accept a discount for all we know, just not half price.

11 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

He may accept a discount for all we know, just not half price.

25% off?

We are shopping the clearance racks at Marshalls?

20 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

That being said, I do think they make 2-3 notable moves. We'll see what they do. All will be forgiven quickly if they trade for Reynolds/Laureano/Marsh, etc., sign Soler, and add a decent arm somewhere. They can easily do this for low $80m, and have a really nice team for $90m. This is not a high ask for me to expect as a fan. To be a bottom 10 payroll.

We're just all tired, man.  ha! 

We KNOW what this team needs and we KNOW it can be a VERY good team for the first time in forever so sitting around waiting for them to dicker over a few million here and there when they're a bottom payroll as it is is panic inducing for the lot of us.  = ) 

32 minutes ago, Michael said:

 

 

The fact that we're the 'hometown' team keeps coming up. I wonder if this is playing some sort of role....

And the fact that the Phillies are also in on him makes it important to get him. You keep him away from a division rival. The other NL East teams can't keep getting better...

Bottom 5 in payroll and the Marlins are seriously gonna try the "hometown discount" plan with Castellanos?  FFS, don't be a cheapskate, spend the money and improve the team....

1 minute ago, CyggyMarlin said:

Bottom 5 in payroll and the Marlins are seriously gonna try the "hometown discount" plan with Castellanos?  FFS, don't be a cheapskate, spend the money and improve the team....

4 minutes ago, CyggyMarlin said:

Bottom 5 in payroll and the Marlins are seriously gonna try the "hometown discount" plan with Castellanos?  FFS, don't be a cheapskate, spend the money and improve the team....

At least a discount when taking in to account philly income taxes, amongst the highest city taxes in the US for municpalities taxing residents, and maybe plus state income taxes.  Would be millions in taxes over a long term contract

 

Cross him off your lists.

 

Marlins: " We want to spend. We need a closer."

 

Give me a break.

6 minutes ago, QbanCastillo said:

 

Cross him off your lists.

 

Marlins: " We want to spend. We need a closer."

 

Give me a break.

FUCKING CHEAPSKATE BILL DEWITT!!!!!!!

(same can apply to Bruce Sherman )

It's the 478532th I checked the internet since the end of the lockout, still ended in disappointment.